Great way to tank a brand. Part of BMW's value is/was the expectation of an upper middle class snob driving it, but having your car force ads on you is something people wouldn't even expect from a Kia Soul leased off a used lot.
Between this, the proprietary nut patent, and the heated seat subscription, I'm probably not going to look at BMW for my next car. They've been going back on things, but all of this adds up to they don't get it.
How can you put Ryanair and BMW in the same category?
Ryanair's whole shtick is "we'll treat you like cattle in a truck, and you'll be grateful you only paid €20 for the experience". I feel that anyone who is outraged by their nickel-and-diming doesn't really understand what Ryanair is about.
If I paid €200 for a flight from Dublin to Amsterdam, and they forced me to watch ads on the seatback screen and charged me to use the loo, then I'll be rightfully upset. But €50 for Ryanair? Where do I sign up for the €20 standing-only tickets?
Ryanair: can’t recall if they’re worse than Spirit/Frontier. “We have one price for tiny people flying with the shirt on their back, and other prices for everyone else like those who might need luggage, or, liquid to survive.“
Ryanair is the epitome of "cheap with compromise" which is the opposite of the BMW brand. And kindle basic gets advertising as a known feature at buying time.
Pushing advertisment after sale on a premium product is absolutely not similar.
I had to edit my comment saying it might not have been a fair comparison because I realized they might’ve just been dissing BMW pretty hard.
‘Enjoy your “luxury“ car’, the kind of “luxury“ that appeals to subsidized e-reader buyers and discount airline customers.
And I like that. If BMW can’t resist monetizing their customers’ attention, they don’t deserve the higher-end customers their marketing suggests they desire.
Are you including people who own older BMWs? They look like really great deals on the used market. Just don’t check the five-year total cost of ownership. If it’s not new, it’s gonna cost you in the shop. Maybe every year or so.
Also I think everyone in our social circles have flagship phones but $50 Android pre-paids sell pretty well. (Someone probably knows, unlike me, the exact numbers.)
Correct. This is about the people who buy new cars. The manufacturers are addressing a well-studied market. Those with money, those who can afford to be "early adopters' of new tech are the sort of people who actually want these features. They want computer screens. They want car-phone synchronization. They want a car that can be "repaired" over an internet connection because that saves interacting with a tradesperson with skills they do not understand or appreciate. Cars are scary for such people. Phones are not. So making the car as phone-like as possible sells more cars.
- The Settings: Apple Intelligence and Apple Fitness+ (including the red dot as if you missed something important).
- The app store. Typically 1/2 or 2/3 of the search page is covered by ads.
- Apple Wallet. They rolled out an F1 advertisement to Apple Wallet in some region.
- iWork apps now have advertisements for updating to an Apple Creator Studio subscription.
- Apple Maps will soon have ads.
Most restraint is gone now to grow the Services category. It just feels gross for flagship devices. It seems that AOSP ROMs like GrapheneOS are the only road to sanity.
I'm beginning to think that my '96 Toyota Starlet is "peak ICE". It has EFI, no infotainment, no power windows, no power steering, no automatic transmission. It is basically an engine, gearbox and wheels. An electric Starlet would be Nirvana.
Edit: Just read that Toyota is toying with the idea of an electric Starlet. It'll probably have an infotainment system and power "everything" though.
I'm not a mechanic but I have rebuilt an engine (common rail diesel with electronic injection) with a friend and do some work on my own cars. I don't really get the "everything needs to be mechanical" push. My previous car was mid 2000s, automatic, electronic basically everything. The reason why I scrapped it was because it had too must rust. The engine, transmission, and electronics were still fine after 200k and 20 years of harsh winters.
My current car had an electrical issue last year... but it turned out it was a mechanical issue. Something had chewed through the wires to the MAF sensor. Fixed them, and all good. It's no different from something chewing through a fuel line, except OBD was able to tell me what subsystem was not working correctly.
The problem I see with current cars is that the infotainment system is tied into everything - and usually the software sucks. If they just went back to seperate dashboard, AC controls and radio I'd have no issues with them.
My current car is from 2016, and I specifically looked for something that was like that. It is hybrid and has modern tech (e.g. radar cruise control), but everything is compartmentalised. First upgrade I did was replacing the headunit with a Chinese one that supports Android Auto/CarPlay. No functionality was lost, as the old head unit was literally just a radio and screen for backup camera.
Just saying that these brands have different offerings in different countries. Here in Germany all big brands: Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW etc have offerings from low lever to luxury car.
Why 2025 though? It didn't yet pass the test of time and there is not enough failure rate data on it. Toyotas(Lexus) do have serious quality issues too, rarely but that happens for certain models from time to time.
It sounds awful, but it might not even make the top-5 of the most annoying/concering things you'll get in a new car (bought in the EU at least), many of which are now mandatory by regulation. What you'll also get is a camera that tracks your eye movements to play an alert when they're not on the road, an alarm when you drive over the allowed speed limit as determined by a camera, an alarm plus a mechanical yanking of your driving wheel when you're approaching the side of your lane without a turn signal on. As a cherry on top it's unclear what happens with all the data generated by these systems. And I'm probably forgetting a few.
I'm wondering what a good cutoff date is when considering buying a used car.
I haven't driven a recent model but afaik the answer for most is Yes, or at best you can disable them for the current ride and they turn on again automatically on every start.
That's quite insane then. Especially the lane departure warning / assist was downright dangerous in snowy conditions when the road markings became partially covered, I cannot imagine driving with that setting on all the time.
> Especially the lane departure ... assist was downright dangerous in snowy conditions
And near cyclists...
(Opposite to some configurations described nearby, some car models do automatically steer pushing the car in its lane, they do not just warn the driver.)
I've never had a point where it is dangerous. It vibrates the steering wheel and that's it. Even on the autobahn's 2.20m wide roadwork left lanes it works good/not bad enough I just leave it on. Lane keeping is not mandatory, only a warning system.
These systems are such a pain in the butt. These can’t be saving lives. My brain completely filters away the speed limit beep. The auto-steering mostly tries to drive me into other vehicles (in the countryside it steers you towards the middle of the road ). And I am pretty sure the eye tracking thing wont prevent me from selecting a spotify song.
cutoff is officially mid 2024. I don’t know if some older cars have been firmware-updated to have these features turned on by default.
The eu has started pushing those things with a 2016 (I believe) regulation that imposed "all cars approved for production after 2018 must have an "e-Call" system (internal GPS, microphone and telephone connected to the police in case of car crash)".
Same in my car from 2017. Also has rear camera, no infotainment other than bluetooth (so I guess it doesn't have any telemetry), physical buttons, no internal nav, no EU warning systems, no alerts that I need to turn off. Perfect car. Very peaceful to drive.
I agree that it’s abhorrent. However the doomer in me can’t help but think they do these things because consumers still buy them. You’d expect GE to go “Oh yeah well we don’t put ads on OUR fridges.” but it seems like in every industry they all just follow suit.
It's not like they're showing ads on fridges/cars in the commercials or the display units in Lowe's/the dealership. By the time you see the ad, it's too much of a hassle to return it, even if you can...
On my Samsung TV recently on the start page some ad has started to show up, years after I bought it. No idea if I can get rid of it. I barely watch TV though, so I don't really care about wasting time trying to get rid of it. But I will for sure avoid Samsung in future TV purchases.
> Clicking on it then activates the Spider-Man™ animation, comprising a full-screen festive animation in the Control Display with aptly chosen backing music and an accompanying light show courtesy of the ambient lighting system.
Stop the presses, it's not an ad, it's just a “festive animation”!
The main story in the wiki page comes from the Autopian [0], specifically from Jason Torchinsky, ex Jalopnik. It's an awesome publication, check them out, and Jason is an incredible writer (Onion alumni)
Wouldn't it be fair if BMW at least shared the advertisement revenue with the car owners?
It's so ugly that they first sell cars, and profit from that. And then they utilize the fleet of cars to squeeze out more revenue, even though that was never part of the contract to begin with. What right does BMW have to do that?
If they found a new revenue source, it would be nice if they at least shared that with their customers. Now it's just abuse of their customers. Where BMW is one-sided profiting while the customers are suffering.
I mean, I don't know of it's still around, but the ad-supported Amazon Kindle was at least cheaper than the regular version. So the customer got some compensation for being shown ads.
BMWs have decent 'mod' support, if you fully own a msport/M you can be mitigating OTA updates in firmware to retain your perf/exhaust pops as regulations/OEMs change goals. Original firmware b58s (m340/z4m40) are infamously coveted for specific software/hardware versions... Same logic can be applied to this strange advert thingy
This looks like it, possibly. There doesn't seem to be a banner that you click on like it states in the consumer rights article, but rather an icon, so not sure.
Hopefully their lawyers have considered the possibility of a bug causing this ad to play while the car is being driven and leading to a distracted driving accident...
on suitably equipped vehicles running BMW Operating System 7, 8, 8.5, 9, or OS X built after July 2020
For those who were surprised by that naming, Apple hasn't used "OS X" for nearly 10 years.
A month ago the highly upvoted blog entry [0] about Rivian’s rejection of CarPlay included this quote from Rivian’s Chief Software Officer, Wassym Bensaid:
The challenge with screen mirroring solutions is that they take over every single pixel in the car, and that’s not the way we see ourselves interacting with our users.
Yes, it’s clear the companies’ see the way they want to “interact” with their customers is to force whatever content they please.
One of the best things one of me mates from high school did for me, is buy himself a BMW. The amount of problems and money he had to deal with helped me realize I didn't actually want a BMW, they're just nice to look at.
Only the older ones without screens. A naturally aspirated inline 6 with a manual gearbox and 50/50 weight distribution is it's own special kind of bliss.
I only take it out maybe 20 times per year, but after merely 30s behind the wheel I remember why I keep it.
they were nice to look at before they hired some military tank designer
and even looking at them is safe only seen they are parked, I warned my kids to be extra vigilant when they are nearby BMW on the road, by far the most dangerous drivers on the road with mental issues
this is what you get for buying cheap noname brand car from Temu
similar thing happened with that British LGBT brand, which is gone
though it's clear people who buy BMW are not mentally sane anyway, I'm yet to see BMW driver with stable personality who would not vent their mental issues on the road, these people will buy BMW with literally any design and specs just because it's BMW, no matter it looks like ugly tank
I honestly believe if we banned BMW car registrations number of accidents would drop much more than it's their total share on registrations.
Between this, the proprietary nut patent, and the heated seat subscription, I'm probably not going to look at BMW for my next car. They've been going back on things, but all of this adds up to they don't get it.
Ryanair's whole shtick is "we'll treat you like cattle in a truck, and you'll be grateful you only paid €20 for the experience". I feel that anyone who is outraged by their nickel-and-diming doesn't really understand what Ryanair is about.
If I paid €200 for a flight from Dublin to Amsterdam, and they forced me to watch ads on the seatback screen and charged me to use the loo, then I'll be rightfully upset. But €50 for Ryanair? Where do I sign up for the €20 standing-only tickets?
Praise be to AdBreak https://kindlemodding.org/jailbreaking/AdBreak
I practically own it now!
Ryanair: can’t recall if they’re worse than Spirit/Frontier. “We have one price for tiny people flying with the shirt on their back, and other prices for everyone else like those who might need luggage, or, liquid to survive.“
Pushing advertisment after sale on a premium product is absolutely not similar.
‘Enjoy your “luxury“ car’, the kind of “luxury“ that appeals to subsidized e-reader buyers and discount airline customers.
And I like that. If BMW can’t resist monetizing their customers’ attention, they don’t deserve the higher-end customers their marketing suggests they desire.
Also I think everyone in our social circles have flagship phones but $50 Android pre-paids sell pretty well. (Someone probably knows, unlike me, the exact numbers.)
BMWs are no where near for that "class". A Mercedes-Benz is for that and even they also put ads in their own dashboard screens. [0]
So on HN-land, time to rule out BMWs, Chevrolets, Mercedes-Benz, Teslas, Volkswagens, Kias. What else?
[0] https://www.motor1.com/news/797846/mercedes-screen-plays-ads...
Mercedes may have a car or two that reaches just out of upper middle class but they are largely a middle to upper middle class brand, just like BMW.
The fact that Merc would do it too just means they are both happy cheapening their brand to align with practices of cheap off-brand android TVs.
- The Settings: Apple Intelligence and Apple Fitness+ (including the red dot as if you missed something important).
- The app store. Typically 1/2 or 2/3 of the search page is covered by ads.
- Apple Wallet. They rolled out an F1 advertisement to Apple Wallet in some region.
- iWork apps now have advertisements for updating to an Apple Creator Studio subscription.
- Apple Maps will soon have ads.
Most restraint is gone now to grow the Services category. It just feels gross for flagship devices. It seems that AOSP ROMs like GrapheneOS are the only road to sanity.
Edit: Just read that Toyota is toying with the idea of an electric Starlet. It'll probably have an infotainment system and power "everything" though.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/2026-toyota-starlet-rumours/
My current car had an electrical issue last year... but it turned out it was a mechanical issue. Something had chewed through the wires to the MAF sensor. Fixed them, and all good. It's no different from something chewing through a fuel line, except OBD was able to tell me what subsystem was not working correctly.
The problem I see with current cars is that the infotainment system is tied into everything - and usually the software sucks. If they just went back to seperate dashboard, AC controls and radio I'd have no issues with them.
My current car is from 2016, and I specifically looked for something that was like that. It is hybrid and has modern tech (e.g. radar cruise control), but everything is compartmentalised. First upgrade I did was replacing the headunit with a Chinese one that supports Android Auto/CarPlay. No functionality was lost, as the old head unit was literally just a radio and screen for backup camera.
Lexus should put that on the cover of their product brochure.
EDIT Add Volvo and Genesis to the list of no ads
I'm wondering what a good cutoff date is when considering buying a used car.
In the eu, the general idea is "you can disable the functions each time you restart the car - they will be re-enabled as the car is off".
Some people spend minutes turning off the annoying parts from the settings before starting the car, each time.
And near cyclists...
(Opposite to some configurations described nearby, some car models do automatically steer pushing the car in its lane, they do not just warn the driver.)
It's super "fun" with temporary marking around road works. I bet it works perfectly in a lab but in the real world..
cutoff is officially mid 2024. I don’t know if some older cars have been firmware-updated to have these features turned on by default.
The eu has started pushing those things with a 2016 (I believe) regulation that imposed "all cars approved for production after 2018 must have an "e-Call" system (internal GPS, microphone and telephone connected to the police in case of car crash)".
And then more, and then more, and still more...
These decision makers are meant to be educated people with may be at least a tiny bit of values in their lives...
Stop the presses, it's not an ad, it's just a “festive animation”!
[0] https://www.theautopian.com/bmw-is-showing-commercials-on-th...
It's so ugly that they first sell cars, and profit from that. And then they utilize the fleet of cars to squeeze out more revenue, even though that was never part of the contract to begin with. What right does BMW have to do that?
If they found a new revenue source, it would be nice if they at least shared that with their customers. Now it's just abuse of their customers. Where BMW is one-sided profiting while the customers are suffering.
No.
Pops don't disappear with software updates. Pops disappeared in Europe because of the dreaded OPF.
That one got a chuckle out of me
https://www.motortrend.com/news/bmw-80-of-1series-owners-don...
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Z8v2tsYdgRk
on suitably equipped vehicles running BMW Operating System 7, 8, 8.5, 9, or OS X built after July 2020
For those who were surprised by that naming, Apple hasn't used "OS X" for nearly 10 years.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48769397
I only take it out maybe 20 times per year, but after merely 30s behind the wheel I remember why I keep it.
and even looking at them is safe only seen they are parked, I warned my kids to be extra vigilant when they are nearby BMW on the road, by far the most dangerous drivers on the road with mental issues
similar thing happened with that British LGBT brand, which is gone
though it's clear people who buy BMW are not mentally sane anyway, I'm yet to see BMW driver with stable personality who would not vent their mental issues on the road, these people will buy BMW with literally any design and specs just because it's BMW, no matter it looks like ugly tank
I honestly believe if we banned BMW car registrations number of accidents would drop much more than it's their total share on registrations.