8 comments

  • mlmonkey 2 hours ago
    > It's long been accepted that the smoother the surface, the lower the aerodynamic drag. That turns out not always to be the case.

    Huh... I'd always heard that a golf ball's dimples help reduce drag?

    • beering 1 hour ago
      TFA makes it clear that this is a very different phenomenon than golf ball dimples, and even goes as far as to say they are opposing.
    • cpncrunch 14 minutes ago
      Read the article….this is a completely different effect.
    • Swizec 1 hour ago
      > Huh... I'd always heard that a golf ball's dimples help reduce drag?

      Yep also vortex generators in cars have become common. So common that they've filtered down to after market parts you can put on a honda civic

      Vortexes break up large air pockets and reduce drag.

      • SilverElfin 9 minutes ago
        Is that what those things are on random civics? Do they make any difference for regular street cars?
        • ungreased0675 3 minutes ago
          I put some (actual, as in from an airplane parts catalog) vortex generators on my hybrid. It slightly increased gas mileage and slightly reduced noise.

          The less aerodynamic the vehicle, the more noticeable the result will probably be.

    • dathinab 2 hours ago
      yep

      and a lot of "smooth" aerodynamic surfaces have "microscopic"/"very small" surface patterns to make the surface less perfect smooth as if it is too perfect smooth the air kinda "sticks" to it increasing drag (to say it in a very unscientific way)

    • pfdietz 1 hour ago
      [dead]
  • sgc 2 hours ago
    If the application method is as rudimentary as sandblasting, it sounds rather simple to retrofit to existing aircraft. If it works as they state it does, it's a virtually free same-day fuel efficiency boost.

    However, I did not see what the actual net improvement was. When they talk percentages, they are talking only about "in the transition zone". They say the coefficient improves throughout, but in theory, it could be almost irrelevant if the overall improvement throughout the profile is close to 0. It also sounds like a very difficult level of precise degradation to maintain for any period of time in real world conditions, since it would be easy to clog or abrade further.

    • imoverclocked 1 hour ago
      … theoretically meets reality pretty quick in aviation. You’ll likely find a lot of red tape to modifying any particular aircraft until it has been tested or certified. Well, for certified aircraft anyway. Even in the experimental world you might find some (excuse the pun) resistance to sand blasting someone’s wing.
    • zonkerdonker 1 hour ago
      Based on the mechanism of flow attachment in the transition zone it seems like the overall airfoil profile would likely have to change to take full advantage of the reduced friction. I think its much more likely to see this technique played with somewhere like Formula 1, if it hasnt been already.
  • littlexsparkee 6 hours ago
  • rawgabbit 1 hour ago
    Uhh. I was taught that in university in the late 80s. Some surfaces have a lot of friction and if you add surface imperfections the turbulent airflow actually reduces drag.
    • clnhlzmn 0 minutes ago
      You learned something different then because this finding is that some kinds of additional roughness delay the transition to turbulent flow which is pretty clear in the article.
  • qwertyuiop_ 1 hour ago
    Tell that to the ice build up on the wing.
  • 6stringmerc 1 hour ago
    I wrote about this ages ago, in that shark skin is an evolutionary adaptation worth study because water is thicker than air, but when air compounds, blah blah blah. Basically think of making a composite mold with directional tiny tiny dorsal fin looking surface. If you rub your hand on it the wrong way it cuts you open. Could even be scaled for large cargo ship hulls.

    Next up: my personal wing invention which uses leading edges modeled on humpback whale fins, because the use case / stall profile is better.

    Sigh, I’m going to have a great time in Heaven chatting with Leonardo da Vinci…

    • r3trohack3r 1 hour ago
      From the featured article:

      > This technology is fundamentally different from the “rivulet (shark skin) process,” which is known as a typical aerodynamic drag reduction technology. The rivulet process mimics the fine longitudinal grooves in shark skin, and by carving grooves approximately 0.1 mm wide along the direction of airflow, it aligns the vortices that occur near the wall surface of turbulent airflow areas. DMR, on the other hand, delays the switch from laminar to turbulent flow by means of random and minute irregularities. The flow zones it affects and the mechanisms it employs are based on completely different concepts.

    • wafflemaker 17 minutes ago
      Why wait for heaven. There probably are mods for Kerbal Space Program with exactly that parts. Create your wingsuit there.
  • bediger4000 6 hours ago
    This article is kind of false. Keeping an object's boundary layer attached is known to reduce drag, even if the flow is turbulent. Golf ball dimples are a successful attempt to keep boundary layers attached.
    • staplung 3 hours ago
      The headline is perhaps overstating things a bit but they do discuss how this is different than e.g. rivulets

      ''' This technology is fundamentally different from the “rivulet (shark skin) process,” which is known as a typical aerodynamic drag reduction technology. The rivulet process mimics the fine longitudinal grooves in shark skin, and by carving grooves approximately 0.1 mm wide along the direction of airflow, it aligns the vortices that occur near the wall surface of turbulent airflow areas. DMR, on the other hand, delays the switch from laminar to turbulent flow by means of random and minute irregularities. The flow zones it affects and the mechanisms it employs are based on completely different concepts. '''

    • toss1 3 hours ago
      Yes, but this is not that.

      Golf ball dimples are about 4 mm across and 0.2mm or 200μm (micrometers).

      These features are several orders of magnitude smaller at 38 to 53μm diameter.

      >>the first in the world to demonstrate that aerodynamic drag can be reduced by up to 43.6 percent simply by applying distributed micro-roughness (DMR), a surface roughness so fine and irregular that it cannot be distinguished by the naked eye. [...] Two types of DMRs were used in this experiment: A convex pattern made of glass beads with diameters ranging from 38 to 53 micrometers (μm) and a concave pattern applied by sandblasting. The height of the DMR coating is only 1 percent of the thickness of the boundary layer and is classified as a “smooth surface” from a hydrodynamic point of view.

    • doginasuit 3 hours ago
      "We apologize for the mistake in overturning a fundamental principle of aeronautical engineering, those responsible have now been sacked."