Clay PCB Tutorial

(feministhackerspaces.cargo.site)

84 points | by j0r0b0 1 hour ago

12 comments

  • lucid-dev 16 minutes ago
    New generations have new language and are attempting to define themselves through their usage of certain terminology and re-framing of words (Arduino -> Arduina).

    This isn't satire and it doesn't have to be dismissed. While I don't find increasing the definition and perceived uniqueness of one's personality and identity is necessarily a positive social thing, it's pretty much the most common thing in today's world - so we shouldn't be judgemental of anyone for doing it, even if "their unique terms and identification process" don't match our own.

    From a project perspective, I find this to be SO creative and VERY HELPFUL energy in terms of truly starting from a primitives/first principles perspective and shows how having a specific ethos and concept allows for development of new forms.

    Like it or not, it's easy to find out the date that oil (petroleum) will run out. It's easy to see the writing on the wall for anyone who cares to see - a high tech utopia Earth will not be. So enjoying the process of pre-emptively creating new tools, new techniques, and flexible terminology - all of this will BE OF AID to all people who must live through this century together.

    • culi 1 minute ago
      The language bit is dual purpose. For one it's clearly tongue in cheek. Furthermore, it's a way to scare off people who would get set off from a little bit of language play. It's a way to make an online space free of people they don't want without actually putting up hard borders or moving it to a less public space. (Personally I think it's a wonderful strategy)

      All the commenters here that are too set off to engage with the article are exactly what they were hoping for

    • fwipsy 7 minutes ago
      What date is that? Petrochemicals aren't all stored in a big tank somewhere. My model is that there are many marginal sources which are not cost-effective to exploit, but which could be exploited with better technology or at a higher cost. I do not think we will ever extract all of these; instead, the cost of extraction will increase gradually, shifting incentives towards other energy sources.

      I don't think anyone really knows what the future will look like.

  • fxtentacle 38 minutes ago
    I truly don’t understand what the hope to gain from self-classifying this is “feminist”.

    “FEMINIST HACKING: BUILDING CIRCUITS AS AN ARTISTIC PRACTICE – an international art-based research project financed by the Austrian Science Fund (FWF)”

    Doesn’t that kind of invite the worst type of trolls? They seem to imply that feminist = artistically produced, as opposed to professionally produced PCBs. So masculine = professional? But clearly that wasn’t their intention?

    • pron 6 minutes ago
      Feminism is not femininity and so is not to be contrasted with masculinity.

      Feminism is originally about gender (power-) equality (and so is orthogonal to femininity and masculinity), but has been extended to other forms of power equality. I think that in this context it's about concern for certain things that established practices don't show concern for. Such concern could perhaps translate to certain power dynamics.

    • fwipsy 5 minutes ago
      I think "feminist" here means "socially conscious," not "small-batch/artistic."
      • Avicebron 4 minutes ago
        Except "free-range feminist eggs" is sort of a weird sentence.
    • 3form 21 minutes ago
      What are you asking about exactly? About classifying the project as feminist or the perceived feminist = artistic implication?

      You start with this:

      >I truly don’t understand what the hope to gain from self-classifying this is “feminist”.

      To which I say - why not? Is this the problem?

      • setr 16 minutes ago
        > To which I say - why not?

        Because it creates weird, presumably unintentional implications. One such implication:

        > They seem to imply that feminist = artistically produced, as opposed to professionally produced PCBs. So masculine = professional? But clearly that wasn’t their intention?

    • jedimastert 17 minutes ago
      The name of the site and I think the group itself is "feminist hacking", the entire point of the research group appears to be examining the ethics of technology and hacking through a feminist lens.

      https://feministhackerspaces.cargo.site/Ethical_issues

      Instead of just trying to make a rather obtuse guess, you could have instead tried looking around the website. It took me like half a second to find that link, even with the more free form UX.

      The term "feminism" as an actual technical definition outside of just like "female empowerment vibes" it might be used for in the everyday language.

    • mlyle 26 minutes ago
      This is going to really confuse future archaeologists.
    • JCTheDenthog 27 minutes ago
      And it's taxpayer funded, to boot. I definitely wouldn't be happy as an Austrian if I knew my taxes were going to something like this (meanwhile hobbyists elsewhere do projects like this on their own dime).
      • kennywinker 6 minutes ago
        Where do you see taxpayer funding? It looks like the hack space has gov funding - but i didn’t see any acknowledgement of grants for this project.
      • oulipo2 25 minutes ago
        Why? This is a creative endeavour, which is exactly how tech progresses. The fact that you're not able to understand the links between "tech stuff" and "societal stuff" should ring alarm bells in your head...
        • JCTheDenthog 15 minutes ago
          >The fact that you're not able to understand the links between "tech stuff" and "societal stuff" should ring alarm bells in your head...

          The fact you think that when I said nothing of the sort should ring alarm bells in your head...

    • beepbooptheory 23 minutes ago
      The opposite of feminist is not masculine. You are conflating feminist with feminine which does indicate why your are maybe confused here. Feminism is not about being partisan like this, and you are operating through a strawman of so-called "second wave feminism" which is like over half a century old and defunct to everyone but guys who get angry at stuff like this.

      Consider how calling yourself "atheist" or "rationalist" comes with some broad commitments and political tendencies, but not necessarily. We say we are an "atheist" to indicate a particular belief but also perhaps a broad attitude to culture as it stands, but not one thing or the other. Its like the same thing here!

    • oulipo2 26 minutes ago
      Well if you were a creative/researcher-type of person, the mere fact that you don't understand what she hopes to gain would push you to read about it. You'd discover the very real links between tech and gender inequalities (or the reinforcement of other minority inequalities) and you'd have learn something
      • fwipsy 2 minutes ago
        I think parent comment is probably aware of gender inequalities in tech.
    • huflungdung 31 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • VegaKH 35 minutes ago
    "We are investigating alternative hardware..."

    The way she writes like this is serious research is throwing me.

    • kennywinker 29 minutes ago
      This is the way that artists speak when describing a new technique or process they have come up with. It’s also something I haven’t seen done before, so it’s legit research to me.
    • oulipo2 25 minutes ago
      Serious research always start by looking like play. Read Feynmann if you want to know more
  • skybrian 1 hour ago
    Interesting experiment, but on the other hand, maybe 3D printing would have less emissions than an open fire?

    I’ve not tried this, but it sounds like a good way to get fast turnaround for very simple circuits:

    https://bsky.app/profile/castpixel.bsky.social/post/3mf52azn...

    • lrasinen 35 minutes ago
      They're not great for anything that might produce heat. Seeing a MOSFET slowly starting to imitate the Tower of Pisa after dissipating a measly 1 W for a few moments was a sight to behold.

      For about two seconds before I cut the power.

    • jedimastert 12 minutes ago
      That's a cool project, I've actually considered something somewhere but never put the energy into actually doing the work.

      I'm guessing that the issue here might have been that copper as a metal is kind of difficult to trace the source to ethically?

      Also, with this method each 3D print is a new instance of using plastic, where with clay you only use plastic once

    • WarmWash 49 minutes ago
      It's an art project
    • jedimastert 26 minutes ago
      Emissions from burning wood (and charcoal) can considered net-zero by some because all of the CO2 being released was initially trapped out of the air by the plant, not releasing "new" carbon that was initially trapped underground
      • skybrian 8 minutes ago
        There’s more to pollution than CO2. You’re polluting the neighborhood with smoke, which is bad for lungs. Maybe okay in a rural area if neighbors are far away.
    • amelius 24 minutes ago
      That link sounds interesting but I can't open it :(
      • skybrian 7 minutes ago
        Seems temporary, try again.
  • chasil 45 minutes ago
    I am wondering what of this could be used in high-volume industrial processes.

    "We had the privilege of spending two days with this skilled craftsman, learning how to identify and collect the clay, and how to model and fire it using old, dry branches collected from the forest ground."

    • jedimastert 11 minutes ago
      I think the entire point of the project and potentially the research group is looking at manufacturing while explicitly/intentionally steering away from high volume and industrial processes.
    • kennywinker 27 minutes ago
      You can buy clay industrially, if you don’t care where it’s from.

      But I think the point of this project is to do small-scale production, not develop new techniques for mass manufacturing

  • fallat 1 hour ago
    I feel like foregoing the whole PCB would be better, and just wirewrap, or "free-air" solder.
    • amelius 48 minutes ago
      How would you handle LQFP or BGA packages?
      • svens_ 28 minutes ago
        What do you think the minimum pad clearance is for the clay?

        You can dead bug an LQFP if you absolutely have to…

      • Brian_K_White 30 minutes ago
        How does this idiotic ash tray of clay and paint handle bga?

        Point to point is easily as functional or better than this.

  • amelius 1 hour ago
    Ceramics are already used a lot in electronics. Ceramic capacitors are the most well known. But you can find it in resistors, inductors and even PCBs. See for example:

    https://www.bstceramicpcb.com/ceramic-pcb/thick-film-ceramic...

    • kube-system 1 hour ago
      The article acknowledges this, and says they chose clay over ceramics for electricity consumption. Although I am not sure why they then chose an open wood fire, which is likely far more polluting than even non-renewable grid power
      • balamatom 1 hour ago
        >Although I am not sure why they then chose an open wood fire, which is likely far more polluting than even non-renewable grid power

        Likely not if you factor in the energy expenditure of gathering some firewood vs. energy expenditure of putting up a power grid.

        inb4 "but it's already there" lmao

        • kube-system 1 hour ago
          Well, the atmega fab was already there and that isn’t quite clean either :)

          But there are many clean ways to generate electricity and electric kilns are quite efficient compared to heating over an open flame.

          I like the artistic element of this exercise, just thought that line of reasoning was a bit off.

          • kennywinker 25 minutes ago
            The chips were pulled from dead arduinos, not bought fresh off the production line
        • poulpy123 1 hour ago
          You need a grid infrastructure to build and ship the rest of the electronics as well as to use the board.

          It's a fun dit/artistic project but the political discourse used to describe it is absurd

          • balamatom 1 minute ago
            Most political discourse you consider normal today (e.g. "fun") was considered absurd some years ago. Fewer than you imagine, probably.
  • WarmWash 1 hour ago
    Truly stonepunk
  • josh-wrale 1 hour ago
    I'm thinking of finer grained applications. Would CNC before firing work? Perhaps finer grained printed stamp plus air-drying clay?
    • kennywinker 21 minutes ago
      i don’t think air dry clay would work very well - it has none of the thermal properties that real clay has, and would probably burn up on soldering?
  • deadeye 45 minutes ago
    Interesting project but I can't tell, is the language used supposed to be satire?
    • jedimastert 7 minutes ago
      It's not, the entire site appears to be a serious examination of technology and hacking ethics through a feminist lens
    • jedimastert 6 minutes ago
      Honestly, the language isn't super off or abnormal in other circles, maybe it's a lot more telling that when posted on a tech-oriented site it's seen as ridiculous
    • nicole_express 34 minutes ago
      The "Arduina" comment definitely made me think it might be at least a little satirical in nature
  • jevndev 24 minutes ago
    > […] ATmega328P chip, which is commonly used in the famous Arduino Uno board (orArduina board, as some feminists call it)

    Please. I can’t tell if this is satire or not. Either way it detracts any credibility from what the author is trying to say.

    • jedimastert 9 minutes ago
      Gonna +1 what the other person said, but also this research group appears to be like intentionally focused on hacking and technology ethics from a feminist perspective sooooo like maybe it's just not your cup of tea to begin with?

      Either way, it's probably that no one cares about your opinions on credibility

    • kennywinker 17 minutes ago
      If you’re the kind of person who can’t get past “arduina”, then i don’t think you’re going to be interested in any of the other ideas in the tutorial.
    • culi 4 minutes ago
      It's probably there specifically to scare people like you away. People who would discount an entire interesting piece of work because of a single bit of language they don't like

      They don't wanna deal with people like you so they're scaring you off ahead of time

  • Brian_K_White 40 minutes ago
    [flagged]