Motorola GrapheneOS devices will be bootloader unlockable/relockable

(grapheneos.social)

485 points | by pabs3 6 hours ago

27 comments

  • Zak 4 hours ago
    I'm glad to hear that. That means these devices will be a popular target, perhaps the popular target for alternative operating systems both Android-based and non-Android Linux.
    • yjftsjthsd-h 36 minutes ago
      Historically Moto devices have already had eg. pretty good lineageos support ( https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#motorola ).
    • boltzmann-brain 45 minutes ago
      with the advent of AI assists, I can't wait for people to start hooking up SoCs, GPUs, and other components burdened by proprietary driver and firmware to logic analyzers, and letting AI have a crack at it. I wonder what'll happen - this might well be the end of proprietary blobs, and I'm here for it.
      • p0w3n3d 42 minutes ago
        That would be wonderful but cracking proprietary blobs which may be and probably are encrypted, would take massive amount of time, and later rework could take a lot of tokens and broken SoCs. Nowadays electronics are driven by software so one bit off and voltage can get 9V instead of 3V for example
      • mptest 41 minutes ago
        the end of proprietary blobs has to be the oddest set of words that excites me
      • Imustaskforhelp 17 minutes ago
        Oh, This might be one of the few ideas I approve AI use of.

        Cursor spent like Million dollars on creating a browser which people were able to make later with a 200$/100$ subscription in the same amount of days as cursor with human assistance.

        I don't think that this can be "autonomous", we assumed that making browsers could be autonomous process but it wasn't. That was the take I took from it all.

        Will this be an example of autonomous tho? I think we still need a human experienced with reverse engineering in the loop but it might significantly improve their workflow

        I wish if cursor, instead of having burnt million $ to something worthless essentially, Could have atleast done this experiment.

  • sandreas 45 minutes ago
    If anyone from Motorola is reading this: Please add a smaller device to your Portfolio, about max the size of a Pixel 8. I'm not hoping for an audio jack any more but at least small it could be.

    All in all: Thank you for making this possible.

  • farkanoid 3 hours ago
    Not sure how I feel about this. Motorola seems to be the exclusive provider of encrypted cellular networks and associated devices to the Israeli military [1][2].

    I'm under the impression that basebands still require a proprietary/binary blob, basically rendering the security features of the underlying Open Source OS useless, since it sits between the user and outside connectivity.

    How can GrapheneOS ensure that there are no hidden backdoors (ie: Pegasus-like spyware, which was created by ex-IDF soldiers via NSO Group), etc, in the baseband?

    [1] https://www.whoprofits.org/companies/company/3808

    [2] https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/mo...

    • spaqin 3 hours ago
      In the same way they can(not) do it on Pixel phones - and I would be surprised if Google was not already cooperating with the state actors. You do what you can. Even open source drivers (which are not gonna happen when operating within tightly regulated radio bands) won't help if there's a hardware backdoor.
      • Barbing 2 hours ago
        Ah nice so leave the phones in another room

        Easy but for missing Step 1 of “Colocate with friends and business partners”

        • lotyrin 2 hours ago
          Just only ever speak in a language of your own invention that uses both cryptographic and steganographic techniques which you invented while colocated, maybe.
          • RealityVoid 1 hour ago
            I can't wait until we're all mentats each speaking our custom encrypted pidgin. That will surely help with communication and world peace!

            Not your keys, not your speech!

    • 627467 3 hours ago
      Motorola Solutions != motorola mobility

      Ill leave you to investigate how != they are

      • herewulf 3 hours ago
        This. I know some people who work for the former and they are always having to say "no, I don't work for that Motorola". The shared name is entirely historic.
        • RajT88 1 hour ago
          Mobility is in Merchandise Mart, Solutions is in Schaumburg.

          Used to be anyways. (My office was a floor below in the mart)

      • farkanoid 3 hours ago
        I did. There's long term patent cross-licensing agreements between the two companies. Motorola mobility may be a separate company now, but they didn't start from scratch.
        • 627467 3 hours ago
          > they didnt start from scratch

          > long term patern cross licensing

          > israel

          > pegasus

          Basically lots of judgment based off of superficial facts with little understanding of implications and the actual consequences of those facts.

          • farkanoid 3 hours ago
            Well, you sure showed me.
            • cromka 12 minutes ago
              They did. You're nitpicking to not lose face while you could have easily say "OK, didn't know they were separate brands" and we'd all move on with our lives.
    • DANmode 1 hour ago
      Will Graphene not require Moto to offer an IOMMU like Pixels do?
    • worldsavior 26 minutes ago
      I'd say you're paranoid. Nobody cares about you, and they won't invest billions just so they can see your hot nude pictures. There are much easier ways to get information out of a phone, no need for a backdoor.

      If there were ever any backdoor in some phone, it would have been found. No smartphone company is gonna take that chance that someone will find their backdoor, it will literally kill the company.

      • Xunjin 6 minutes ago
        Whether parent is paranoid or not, Pegasus literally is used to spy, just because the state might not care about his hot nude pictures does not mean they don't care about other phone usage.

        "While NSO Group markets Pegasus as a product for fighting crime and terrorism, governments around the world have routinely used the spyware to surveil journalists, lawyers, political dissidents, and human rights activists."[0]

        Information these they can be much as powerful as a bomb, for example, I could learn more about your calls and discover that you do something immoral but not illegal and use it to blackmail you.

        0.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware)

  • mmh0000 4 hours ago
    If true. And I put a big if on that.

    I WILL be buying their flagship model.

    My go to for Graphene has been used Pixels from eBay. Because I can’t give money to Google in good conscience.

    • smusamashah 2 hours ago
      Didn't know more people are doing this. I am also using a used Pixel 4a which I got from eBay. Still has good battery. I don't see any reason to upgrade any time soon.
      • boltzmann-brain 40 minutes ago
        Speaking of battery, veeeeery soon phones will have mandated replaceable batteries in the EU. I'm just hoping my current moto (a $99 job perfectly adequate for absolutely everything I do) survives until then.

        Aside: I've noticed over the years that phones die in one of the following ways: - too fast charging (battery dies, charge controller dies) - usb port dies - screen broken - all sorts of falls

        A lether folio case, gorilla glass, and a Qi charging adapter solve all of those problems (the charging adapter also limits the current by virtue of being inefficient). It has a magnetic connector (it's a simple two-pin job and it doesn't have any issues) - in the rare occasion I want to charge up real quick, I can still hook up directly via usb c, and meanwhile the port is stuffed with the converter's plug which prevents it from accumulating dirt and fluff.

        I'm glad to say that even despite many falls, some directly onto the screen, the phone itself still works very well, even if the case and glass protector are obviously ragged.

        I hope once unlockable Moto's come around I'll be able to keep that one for a long while as well.

      • duskdozer 42 minutes ago
        imo the RAM bloat/overly aggressive OS. on a similar aged device without zswap I couldn't run more than one maybe two things without the OS killing everything in the background. I think it was better before I got stuck updating to 15
      • DANmode 1 hour ago
        Security patches.
    • dotancohen 1 hour ago
      Doesn't buying a used pixel encourage the sale of new pixels by demonstrating a healthy resale value?
      • nhumrich 1 hour ago
        I don't think the market of people buying used phones for the purpose of graphene is going to make a dent in profits for Google. It raises resale value maybe by say, $0, considering the price is set by the average consumer
    • dataflow 2 hours ago
      You should really try to buy any phone used if you can, whether Pixel or Google or not.
      • scrollop 1 hour ago
        Why?
        • dataflow 39 minutes ago
          For the environment? To reduce e-waste? And you'll almost certainly save substantial money too.
    • aussieguy1234 4 hours ago
      I too have been buying used Pixels, mostly for environmental reasons. But from a local shop phonebot. Got 3 phones from there, no issues at all.
      • Barbing 2 hours ago
        Buying used introduces such a big supply chain risk. I stay safe by buying direct and asking the NSA not to open the shipment in the order notes.

        (y’all know this one https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa... )

        • gf000 1 hour ago
          What is the supposed threat model here?

          Mr. Rich Guy sells me his personal device he used in the previous year because he wants new shiny phone, but he may have the very slightest chance of being a super evil genius? The government selling tampered phones on ebay, when they could just.. go directly to vendors and put their backdoors directly into new phones/software?

          Sorry for the light snark, but this attack vector seems way too complicated for not much benefit. Unless you are some very VIP person being personally targeted.

  • notorandit 1 hour ago
    It depends, but it is promising.

    If devs can have access to all of the hardware and related documentation and source code, then this is to become very good news.

    PCs became popular and widespread because of that: openness.

  • keerthiko 5 hours ago
    Does anyone know where I can read more about which devices will be supported? GrapheneOS website devices FAQ doesn't list any Motorola devices, and the press release doesn't have much either.
    • vbezhenar 5 hours ago
      As I understand that situation, GrapheneOS developers are super picky about hardware they want to support. So out of all android phones they decided to support only Google Pixel because only these phones provide good enough hardware support for security features they want to provide.

      So likely no existing Motorola phones are good enough and only new ones, developed in collaboration with GrapheneOS developers, will be suitable.

    • wolvoleo 5 hours ago
      There's no details yet, but I was reading it won't likely emerge until 2027 so ostensibly these will be models that are yet to be announced. Might even be models dedicated to grapheneos (and other open source roms as they mentioned here)
    • MYEUHD 5 hours ago
      Future Motorola devices (or maybe a subset of them?) will support GrapheneOS

      > We're collaborating on future devices

      https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116159602850585685

    • BLKNSLVR 4 hours ago
      I'm pretty sure strcat was saying on a previous thread that it will only be future models, so nothing in their current line up in guaranteed to be compatible.
    • catlikesshrimp 5 hours ago
      This project is in hype stage. No work seems to have been done, yet.

      Samsung had something as ambitious years ago, but it went nowhere https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-promised-make-old-pho...

      Stay tuned

  • wobfan 28 minutes ago
    The biggest argument for me to buy one of these phones - when they actually arrive - next to running GrapheneOS, will be whether these phones, like all others, are way too big to use with only one hand. Like, I don't have a lot of requirements. Just make it run GrapheneOS and let it be >6 inches. I'll immediately buy it.
    • pastrami_panda 21 minutes ago
      Larger than 6 inches, got it!

      Assuming you meant < 6 inches I'm all for it as well, it would be another incredible usp for these devices.

  • rationalist 3 hours ago
    You know what would be good for security:

    Having physical disconnect switches (Bluetooth/Wifi, Modem, Power, Microphone/Speaker), and integrated lens cover like Lenovo laptops (at least for the front camera whereas a case can cover the rear cameras).

    On a side-note:

    Triple active SIM would be amazing, but one can dream. I would love to have a phone that has an active AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon SIM at the same time.

    • adrianwaj 3 hours ago
      Also a disconnect switch for the telco signal. Yet in my experience, even when turned off, a phone may send out a signal periodically anyway for tracking / triangulation purposes.

      However to avoid that, removal of the battery is required. A disconnect switch for power would do the same?

      I think moving to micro-PCs is the answer, and then having an add-on to get a telco-signal. Why trust Motorola? Start at grass roots where possible. Everything needs to be open-source and based on open standards. No trojans, telemetry or remote overrides.

      Maybe the product is an adapter case for a Pi that adds a screen, battery, antenna and whatever else is required to make it a smartphone alternative?

      Also, looking forward to Mecha Comet.

      • rationalist 3 hours ago
        > switch for the telco signal

        Sorry, that's what I meant when I said Modem.

        > A disconnect switch for power would do the same?

        I would think so. I don't necessarily care about removable batteries because I use a portable power bank. Why carry an extra battery that only works for one device, when I can carry a "battery" that works for many devices?

      • staplers 3 hours ago

          I think moving to micro-PCs is the answer
        
        Would be shocked if hardware is affordable enough for such a thing in a decade
    • dotancohen 1 hour ago

        > You know what would be good for security: Having physical disconnect switches
      
      Wouldn't those become failure points? Anything mechanical will not only wear, but will be affected by dust, dirt, sand, dead skin cells, body oils, etc.
      • mmooss 53 minutes ago
        It depends on how durable they make the switches. Lightswitches, for example, tend to be durable.
        • dotancohen 2 minutes ago
          Light switches do not go with hundreds of thousands of people to the beach, the desert, left in hot cars, rained on, sat on, dropped, pressed against sweaty facts, etc.
        • yehoshuapw 15 minutes ago
          the smaller something of that type is, the harder to make it durable (I think)
    • NewJazz 2 hours ago
      Triple active SIM would be amazing, but one can dream. I would love to have a phone that has an active AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon SIM at the same time.

      You can fit several esims on one of these adapters AIUI.

      https://jmp.chat/esim-adapter

      • tensegrist 4 minutes ago
        i'm surprised this works, in the sense that there aren't tons of technical safeguards and/or lawsuits getting in the way of someone doing this
    • duskdozer 40 minutes ago
      Removable battery
    • gf000 1 hour ago
      That's just security theater. If you can't trust the very CPU/OS that it only uses the camera/microphone when the notification is on, then what are you even doing with that device?
    • Scrounger 3 hours ago
      Google Fi will auto-switch between AT&T and T-Mobile but not Verizon, AFAIK.
      • mjg59 3 hours ago
        Fi launched with Sprint and T-Mobile roaming and added US Cellular, but is presently T-Mobile only. I don't think AT&T has ever been a supporter carrier.
  • sourcegrift 2 hours ago
    Why doesn't someone collaborate with pine64? Chasing after any flavour of android is going to be an exercise in masochism
    • Ugvx 2 hours ago
      Grapheneos has well established its role in the android ecosystem. Having developed and upstreamed features that have as a whole, improved the security of android.

      Pine64 has targeted a very different market around extensibility and hacker/maker mindset. However while their phones have a lot of potential, security measures are half baked (microphone cutoff switch doesn't actually cut off the microphone), performance mediocre, and demand missing. While I love my pinephone pro, its not a dailiable device. A phone that cannot access common services like your bank account are non viable for 99% of users.

    • NewJazz 2 hours ago
      Because, and I really mean no offense to them, their phones fucking suck. Like, dogshit slow hardware with terrible drivers and a modem that barely works with last gen tech.

      Their most advanced phone is based on a >10 year old SoC, that wasn't even that good when it was first released.

      • gf000 1 hour ago
        And even then they still don't live up to their promises, it is still not open hardware - there are a bunch of proprietary firmware, but especially silicon on these devices.
  • jaypatelani 49 minutes ago
    I hoped they would have gone with HMD or BlackBerry.
    • forkerenok 42 minutes ago
      Why? Multiple times in the last 8 or so years I've considered both Nokia (HMD) and Motorola. Looking at reviews and specs I decided every time in favor of Motorola, despite liking the design of Nokia's more, and didn't regret it.
  • t1234s 4 hours ago
    With Motorola being owned by the Chinese company Lenovo can these new devices be used in secure environments? I remember when Lenovo took over making ThinkPads they were banned in some secure environments because of Lenovo links to CCP.
    • tho2i3423400 4 hours ago
      At this point in time, esp. given the raving lunacy of the US White House, those of us outside the "West", wonder the same thing about US companies.
      • eckelhesten 3 hours ago
        Honestly I’d prefer Chinese backdoors over western ones. China is still a land far far away and I couldn’t care less about what they’d do with my data, unlike western alphabet boys who could freeze my accounts and assets for ”wrongthinking” in the future.
        • tjpnz 3 hours ago
          Just make sure you don't have any family in China and don't plan to transit through HK anytime in the future.
          • rationalist 3 hours ago
            One has to be careful when flying. Your flight's origin or destination might not be in China, and may not even be through Chinese airspace, but if there is an in-flight emergency, an airport in China might be the closest landing spot.
            • iso-logi 2 hours ago
              Occasionally, they'll "stage" an in-flight emergency, forcing a landing in China and arrest you.

              The US invented it.

              • margalabargala 1 hour ago
                This isn't something the average random GrapheneOS user needs to worry about.

                Doing this has a non negligible political cost. They would only do it for a high value target. If you're that person, you're presumably aware.

    • abdullahkhalids 4 hours ago
      The true reason you can't trust a Chinese company, and other countries can't trust US companies, is the Western patent regime that allows various companies to sit on patents for absurd amounts of times, preventing others from selling you completely clean hardware on which every piece of software can be replaced.
    • zeech 4 hours ago
      Good point. It's a good thing that, say, Google is notoriously independent from the US government, and has never had any ties to it whatsoever.
    • NewJazz 1 hour ago
      Depends on what environment you mean. Chinese secure environments would see a Chinese OEM as an advantage vs. Google Pixels. In the US yeah you'd want a Pixel.

      European tech is in shambles and everyone else is barely holding it together outside of tech.

    • Charon77 4 hours ago
      The whole point about having an open platform from boot is you don't have to trust it. You run your own code from first power on.

      Is it possible that it's backdoored, have a secret opcode / management engine? Probably, but that goes to everyone, as it's not practical to analyze what's in the chip (unless you're decapping them and all)

      I don't know what secure environments you're talking about, if it's an airgapped system then you should be secure even when what's inside 'tries to get out'.

      • Haven880 3 hours ago
        Korean and western made stuff guarantee to have such thing. CNC devices in Russia stopped working. Even NVIDIA gpu has back door according to China and NVIDIA had to settle this matter behind the scene with China government. At this point, your phone is 100% backdoorable by western government. The only thing protect you is you are non-threat and too small to be bother with.
        • unethical_ban 3 hours ago
          Is there documentation that GrapheneOS Pixels or iPhones are backdoored by governments to the extent that any person can be targeted?
    • Haven880 3 hours ago
      Iphone is made by Chinese companies too. Same with Tesla. A lot of those components made by purely Chinese companies and yes can be trace to individuals who are CCP. It is extremely hard to source another purely away from any Chinese connections. If you say the main company is USA, you seems to ignore how the pager exploding setup was done. Go into any IT rooms in USA and you audit it as zero from China even if you ignore Taiwan as recognized by American law as part of China. We can't buy anything truly made non-China. Even F35 has some components (and that is official, unofficial we dont know) made in China. Google want to sell Motorola to American companies, not even Pentagon or NSA bother back then. Think about it, how hard to engineer a backdoor exactly same components (say capacitor) or motors during shipment for those phones.
    • maxloh 4 hours ago
      > Lenovo originated as an offshoot of a state-owned research institute.

      From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo

    • lacunary 4 hours ago
      what does "secure environment" mean?
      • mattnewton 4 hours ago
        Not OP but I guess it’s where the threat model includes worrying about the foreign government actors. Like US infrastructure, government contracting or some major tech companies.
  • Synaesthesia 2 hours ago
    I wonder if I'm gonna be able to flash my existing Edge 70.
    • microtonal 1 hour ago
      Unlikely, current devices do not have the required security features. The plan to support some devices of the 2027 lineup.
  • yooastan 4 hours ago
    A physical keyboard device with GrapheneOS would mog
    • mrbuttons454 3 hours ago
      Hopefully it gets a port to the Clicks Communicator. From what I understand the bootloader will be unlockable.
  • montroser 3 hours ago
    So, what is Motorola's incentive here? I love it, but why are they pursuing this? It's an enterprise / government play around auditable privacy and security?
    • ajvs 34 minutes ago
      They know their software and update story sucks, so partnering with a company which promises to handle all that and they have an existing audience means they'll sell a lot more of that model.
    • debazel 2 hours ago
      My guess is that this is a great way for them to standout, fill a niche, and get tons of free advertisements in order to gain back some of their Android market share.

      Motorola has effectively lost in the Android market and are on downward spiral into irrelevance (already there?), so they have to do something different.

      • Ugvx 2 hours ago
        Add to that existing grapheneos users at best only care about good enough performance and a good camera, the selling feature is security and so a lot less overhead to market such a phone. Those who want the latest features will continue to buy pixels, Samsung, and iphones. The only thing I feel is missing from the picture at a quick glance is a tablet for the few who want a secure tablet device.
        • scblock 1 hour ago
          "Those who want the latest features will continue to buy pixels"

          My friend the GrapheneOS supported devices list is nothing but pixels, including the very latest models. It'll be good to have more supported devices.

          https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices

    • stefanka 1 hour ago
      Digital sovereignty. Europe is a big market and Motorola could gain traction this way
    • atoav 2 hours ago
      Sell devices who want to get out of the grip of US software monopolies. This is not unpopular in the rest of the world.
  • Imustaskforhelp 29 minutes ago
    Is this feature gonna be on All phones including Low-end/mid-end (4-8Gb ram) and their flagship phones?

    It's gonna be huge if that's the case because Pixel's here are expensive, their second hand prices are in "non-global" countries[0] and you have to pay a premium. Also I live in world's largest second-hand phone market and it can have its worries as well.

    You can't say to anyone who wants privacy, oh just buy a second-hand pixel. It's just not that easy.

    But if Motorola can launch multiple phones and there are always gonna be some deals one way or another (with cards) and as motorola phones are pretty competitive in price, Finally we can have phones worldwide where privacy isn't charged extra.

    I have spent some hours looking at online second hand phone stores to find but due to its somewhat rarity, I always feel like being frugal, I am just paying extra for privacy and so I am really happy with decision from motorola using their supply chain of phones and partnering up with Graphene.

    I was gonna buy a phone for myself, I was thinking a second hand pixel phone but given the things I said earlier at this point, I might as well wait for a few more months to get the moto phone.

    I just hope that they launch an affordable phone with grapheneos. I really don't care about specs as I have been able to live my life with 7 year old motorola phones too in 2026 for sometime.

    I will definitely recommend my family Motorola phones in the future and slowly convert everyone to motorola if motorola releases an affordable phone with actual privacy.

    [0]:https://www.xcitium.com/blog/news/why-is-google-pixel-not-gl...

  • lordofgibbons 4 hours ago
    Given that Google has said they'll be delaying source code release for Android to every X months intervals (iirc), how is GrapheneOS planning to handle security updates? Will they just be Google's binary blobs?
  • smashah 4 hours ago
    Whatever this device is is at the top of my list for my next phone.
  • LoganDark 4 hours ago
    Do we know if there there be Widevine L1 keys that aren't deleted on unlock? (Certain phones restore access to L1 on bootloader relock, as long as AVB passes, including with custom keys.)
  • alexander9866 1 hour ago
    Does this have more security, Please let me know share the details
  • yegle 4 hours ago
    I think Pixel phones are also unlockable/relockable?
    • dietr1ch 4 hours ago
      Samsung did restrict side-loading recently,

      - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47202808

      I'm sure that Google will do something like that as soon as it faced the US's carrot and stick they signed-up for.

    • H8crilA 4 hours ago
      This is how you can install GrapheneOS on these. Also, if you're wondering how does the security of something like this work: if you change the boot hash then the phone forgets all the hardware-stored secrets, for example the disk encryption keys.
  • jMyles 5 hours ago
    Even though there doesn't seem to be huge mainstream consumer demand for this (although I actually question how well consumer demand for privacy and customization can ever be ascertained when the price signals are corrupted by a market where the winning players are essentially chosen by the state, as is arguably the case with both TSMC and Qualcomm), it still feels like the world simply couldn't go on with both iOS and Android become caged, cheapened, fragile shadows of the visions we once had for them (particularly AOSP).
    • windexh8er 4 hours ago
      Not to be flippant but who cares? People don't know there's an option. I've run Graphene for years and will gladly pay a premium for it. Beyond the bolstered security the battery life is exponentially better than a default Android device because of all the constant background traffic that Google doesn't allow any control over that you instantly have a choice with on GrapheneOS.

      And as soon as you start showing these things to people they do start to care and ask how. So the fact that the mainstream is ignorant and doesn't care enough yet doesn't matter because it's very likely a much larger segment of users will care when the tech evangelists they trust stop using IOS and Google Android. That's how these things started and that's how they could very well play out in this scenario as well.

      • jMyles 4 hours ago
        Yes, I agree in full. Did you think I was taking a position contrary to this one?
    • dietr1ch 5 hours ago
      I think we can only expect the demand for privacy to grow into the future given that people tracking in a trenchcoat schemes are popping up everywhere through governmental and private efforts trying to gather data for ads and control.
    • dmix 4 hours ago
      Not all markets are trendy B2C stuff. The Motorola press release specifically mentioned B2B/corporate sales where security is important and there's plenty of government, journalist, non-profits/activists, etc usecases on top of the usual corporate locked-down environments like banking.
  • m00dy 3 hours ago
    I think banking apps especially the ones in UK, won't work on this device.
  • tamimio 4 hours ago
    This whole thing feels like a subversion, instead of having graphene independent from devices and widen the attack vector, now the spooks can just focus on the “supported official device” only. That being said, the hardware isn’t open source (cell modem is enough to expose you), some binary blobs for the firmware aren’t open source, motorola is a US company with all what that means, if you are after anonymity or even privacy, I would stay away from it entirely, you will be like a person putting a full mask on while on public, except that mask is scanning your face in real time. You will stand out like a sore thumb, your best strategy is blending in, so the automated systems scanners won’t flag you and thus put you under further monitoring.

    The timing is super weird too, when all corporations are pushing for digital ID, are actively lobbying to deanonymize the users, cooperating with gov too to have a smooth pipeline for such process, and motorola the known company of having defense contracts, are suddenly caring about open source privacy?! Cmon

    • gf000 1 hour ago
      You can't have secure software running on arbitrary insecure hardware.
    • unethical_ban 3 hours ago
      Lots of speculation, correlation and not a lot of reasonable conclusions.
      • tamimio 2 hours ago
        The only speculation part is the timing, the rest are facts, only a naive will think a smart phone is ever private or anonymous. Your phone has a unique ID tied to the hardware that can ID you, your cell modem isn’t open source and is equipped with builtin high accuracy GNSS, plus other hardware and its non open drivers that can be exploited, among many attack vectors that are easily exploited on modern smartphones. This issue isn’t unique to phones too, many modern laptops are also part of it, TPM and plenty of hardware that aren’t really open, the only exception is a laptop can be used in an air gapped environment, not really the case with a smartphone, because assuming you managed to do so, it defeated its purpose to start with.

        The conclusion here is if you are after anonymity then you should ditch your phone entirely, having a “secure OS” won’t provide such goal but it might bring more attention to you than using of-the-shelf average phone.

    • scuff3d 3 hours ago
      Jesus Christ...
  • ChrisArchitect 5 hours ago
    Related:

    Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47214645

  • huflungdung 12 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • LelouBil 4 hours ago
    Well, I'll surely be buying a Motorola device when GrapheneOS support lands.

    I've been running on several half-working recent android ports to my Xiaomi Mi 9t for many years now.

    If I can get a modern phone, modern android, my privacy preserved and a hackable phone (to the extent an unlockable bootloader allows, which isn't a given nowadays, I especially hate how Xiaomi does it), I'm 100% sold.

    We'll see when it comes out I guess!